yet another timeshare presentation, hawaii edition part 2

yesterday, i started talking about my latest timeshare presentation adventure. due to the length, i had separated out the experience into two different parts:

• part one: how to get the time share presentation
• part two: what happens in the actual timeshare presentation

i think that getting the actual timeshare presentation is light-hearted and fun. the guy signing you up for the presentation wants to keep you motivated to go to the actual presentation. but once you get there, especially if you've made up your mind in advance that you don't want to buy one, they're not quite as nice. and so after three different presentations, i've realized that what makes this process easier is the fact that i've dealt with narcissistic and anti-social personalities via work. if i pretend that i'm at work, then these presentations are quite easy.

so when you arrive, you have a nice fancy entrance area, with pictures telling you how much of a paradise the hilton is (and to be fair, it is a lovely property). the reception desk is full of smiling people, unless they aren't. in which case, you get a nice empty picture, as per below.

1) they checked me in i waited for the salesman. he was 4 minutes late for me today, but the clock started ticking at my scheduled appointment time. it is important to remind them that they were late, so as to give you more leverage for when you turn them down later. "i have to admit that i lost confidence in things when you showed up late," is something i said near the end. i also looked for anything to use in order to gain more leverage. for instance, as he walked by the washrooms, he tapped the female door  and said "and if you need the washrooms, they are here." he could have pointed to the male one.

2) he tried to be friendly with me. i suspect that he probably googled vancouver before our appointment (hence the 4 minutes), and tell you how much they love it there. but then that's where i interrupt the to make it clear: "so letting you know, i'm actually here for the gift cards only, and that i'm pretty skeptical about all of this. i'm probably not going to buy, but i'm open to hearing your presentation." i think it's only fair to let them know in advance so that they don't waste their time. however, if they choose to continue their hard sales pitch after that, then that's no longer my issue. i should have been more careful with how much hope i gave him, though. i think they're trained to grasp onto the smallest bit of ambivalence, and in a motivational-interviewing kind of way, they try to ramp you up through the stages of change.

3) he gathered my information, he gathered my typical vacation preferences. he gave me a survey about how important certain factors are in your life, and it will be clear that he hasn't read it himself because he will ask you about every single point. "why is happiness important to you? who do you meet while you are on vacation?" but i am curt with the replies: "because it is. and i meet people here." really, i wanted to tell him: "none of your business." 

he berated my current hotel that i'm paying 50$ for (thanks to expedia's best price guarantee), tells me that the cost of my hotel 10 years from now will be roughly 500$ a night (uh, i'm not one to stay at 500$ hotels ... or even 250$ hotels no matter how nice they are). he tells you that you can own your vacation property and vacation points, and that you can use those points at any of their properties, and that points will never experience the ill effects of inflation. he cannot explain how come those vacation points don't devalue over time, yet their prized hhonors points do.

4) he made me watch a 15-minute video, which, i will admit, reduced my level of certainty from 99% to 95%.

5) he insisted on going for a tour and a walk-through of the property. he sensed that i wasn't really interested, and so he took the opportunity to jab me a few times: "i know this is above your affordability," he said at least a few times. during this portion, he kept on confusing my profession multiple times (psychologist vs. psychiatrist). i corrected him many times. but i was thankful because i was able to use this in the end: "it was really weird that you kept calling me a psychologist," i told him. "i felt that you weren't really listening to me and paying attention to what i was looking for. how  can i trust that this timeshare really fits my needs if you don't even listen to me?"

6) he took me back to the office and gave me the numbers re: points and how the program works. he will tell me the cost of ownership vs. how much money i'm throwing into the trash by renting. at this point, i innocently looked at the phone, which he was intensely aware of: "you have somewhere to go?" he asks me in a confrontational matter. "no," i replied. "i'm just seeing what the time is." but he knew he was wasting his breath, and so he didn't even bother telling me about the full cost of ownership.

(in previous timeshare sessions with the "new" upscale property groups, it turns out to be a $25-50k upfront fee to buy a "deed" for which you keep. it's associated with an annual maintenance fee that will go into perpetuity until you sell it back to the company for a fraction of your initial $25-50k investment. the annual maintenance fee is just slightly less than what you would pay for a normal, affordable, decent hotel for the same amount of time. admittedly, the rooms are much nicer than normal hotel rooms, and so if you insist on luxurious rooms, maybe it is worth it after all. maintenance fees are subject to inflation).

7) he terminated when it was clear that i wasn't going to buy. he told me that i was clearly a money waster, that this is a bad decision, but that's okay because "look like that type" anyway. he will threaten you, saying that you may never be offered another chance to tour again, and that these free gifts will disappear. when i pointed out how he wasn't listening to even basic things (e.g., where my hotel was, what i did for a living, how he wasted my time with the survey), he pulled out his book of recent sales. he showed me one from yesterday with a hand-written testimonial about how wonderful he was. he told me that because he was very consistent with his sales pitch, that the problem was clearly with me. 

it should be noted that when you sign up, you can have the option of using your passport as ID, which does not contain your address. you can use your parents' address, you can use your work phone number, and in that sense, it is hard to be refused for future sales pitches.

8) you always get your gift. how it is presented to you varies. in my case, he kind of tossed it in front of me, and i just let it plop onto the desk while keeping full eye contact. and just like that, i was dismissed, gift in hand.

9) they pretended to forget to give me a taxi voucher. but since their front desk is right beside the holding room for eager people waiting to hear the sales pitch, all i had to do was ask: "oh, hey, i just finished my tour, and i was promised a taxi voucher back. could i get a voucher back, please?" they quickly issued one for me.

10) in and out time: 90 minutes, but only because the salesman insisted on dragging it out. 

my friend told me that timeshare presentations are a little bit soul-destroying. but i think i came out in the end with minimal rage and $150 richer (+free swag as pictured below). i'm looking now for the next one!

yet another timeshare presentation, hawaii edition part 1

the first time i went to hawaii back in 2011, i was introduced to the world of timeshare presentations. i was a newbie at those, but i knew the one fundamental key: do not buy. i just remembered my dad buying one back in the 1990s, and i think he still regrets it.

the first time i went, i think i jumped for the opportunity of getting a $100 prepaid credit card with lunch included. they didn't tell me that you could get more. they didn't tell me that you could get more expensive experiences instead of a prepaid credit card. i didn't know that you could short circuit things so that you leave sooner rather than enduring the whole two hour presentation. during my second trip to hawaii, i was offered a $200 pre-paid amex for attending another session. that time, i told the presenter up front that i wasn't interested and that i was only here because of the gift. i was in and out of there within 45 minutes.

so fast forward to this trip, i was playing united's "halfway to hawaii" game when i saw that you could get this free tote from hilton if you went to their kiosk at the ala moana center. and that's when i was offered another chance to do a presentation for $150 with hilton grand vacations. this post is done in parts:

• part 1: how to get the timeshare presentation
• part 2: what happens in the actual timeshare presentation.

how to book a timeshare presentation:

1. find a reason to go to the kiosk. in this case, i needed to pick up the free tote bag. at the ala moana center, all of their kiosks have the word "information" on them as well. it's really information about the timeshare properties, but it's not unreasonable to expect that they'd have information about the mall too (e.g., "where is the washroom?"). so when you see a kiosk, innocently ask whether this is for a timeshare presentation as well.
2. ask what chain it is for and compliment the hotel: "oh, i saw ____ as i the shuttle was driving by and it looks so nice!" they cater to tourists, and so once, i had my camera hanging from my neck to be extra convincing.
3. they'll try to sell you on a timeshare presentation. they'll offer a gift. if it's not cash or something that you don't want (e.g., i was offered a hawaiian luau party for two -- no thanks), then a disappointed "oh" followed by an open ended pause, mixed with a little bit of a dismay on your face. that usually does the job. "or, we also have another promotion where if you go tomorrow, we can give you $150 in amex gift cards," he told me, picking up quite quickly that i had no interest in a big party with random strangers and lots of alcohol. "normally, it's $100, but for tomorrow only, it's $150." sometimes, you can push harder for more stuff, but honestly i didn't want to be too greedy.
4. they make you sign a bunch of forms agreeing to things:
• you're over the age of majority
• you're above a certain income level ($75,000/year for this one). they didn't verify.
• if you're married, then your spouse needs to come. they didn't say anything about common-law so i left it as ambiguous: "no, i'm not married."
• you're willing to sit through a 2-hr presentation
• you have not done one from the same company (e.g., wyndham vs. hilton vs. marriott) within the last 12 months (for hilton) or 6 months (for wyndham). 
5. they book a time for you, and arrange transportation to the sales office. they will give you a carbon copy of your agreement form and appointment time. you show up at the appropriate time.

it's pretty simple to get these offers. remember that the guy at the mall kiosk is motivated to get you to the showroom; that's how he gets paid. so even if you've had a poor encounter from the actual timeshare salesman in the past, it will have no influence on how eager the mall kiosk guy will be towards you. when you have the agreement in writing, you're all set. this is the fun part. the next part is a bit harder on the ego, but can still be worth it. that post will be for later.


either way, i'm basking in the glow of my $150 amex gift cards for now ...

Double dipping: buy your gift cards from Petro Canada!

Back when Safeway would offer Airmiles on gift cards, I would make sure that I would buy all of my gift cards from Safeway. Unfortunately, they've since corrected their computer glitch such that you can no longer earn miles. You used to be able to insist that the cashier swipe your points card "just for fun" and voila! -- one mile per 20$ in gift cards. No reward = no incentive.

I recently applied for, and started using, the Scotia Bank Gold American Express. It's a card that gives me a 4% rebate on gas, grocery, dining, and entertainment spend for use for future travel. So my strategy was to just purchase gift cards from Safeway to earn the 4% rebate instead of 2% with my MBNA World Points Mastercard. Such gift cards would include: Subway, A&W, iTunes, Banana Republic, HBC, and Best Buy. Doing so would serve two purposes: 1) allow me to use my Amex for purchases at non-Amex retailers (e.g., A&W), and 2) allow me to earn a 4% rebate across more types of purchases that wouldn't normally qualify for that extra rebate (e.g., that new shirt at Banana Republic).

I was at Petro-Canada looking at investing in the Pivot Visa (a topic for a future post), when I suddenly remembered something unique with Petro-Canada: they still offer points for your gift card purchases. In fact, you get 20 points per dollar spent. And with the Scotia Bank Amex, because Petro-Canada is a gas retailer, you still get 4% back!

Remember from my previous post: Petro-Points are very versatile. Note the conversion ratio assumes getting 20 Petro-Points per dollar spent on gift cards. Sometimes, there are promotions which would allow you to earn even more:

• 10,000 Petro-Points = 1,000 Cathay Pacific Asia miles. So you get 2 points/$1 spent
• 10,000 Petro-Points = $10 worth of travel at itravel2000.com. Rate of return: 2%
• 12,000 Petro-Points = 1,000 Sears points = $10 in Sears purchases. Rate of return: 1.67%
• 12,000 Petro-Points = $10 fuel savings card (5c off for 200L). Rate of return: 1.67%
• 80,000 Petro-Points = $50 Petro-Canada gift card. Rate of return: 1.25% 

Another unique value proposition is purchasing their prepaid Visa cards: $250 for an activation fee of $6.95. To save on the taxes on the activation fee, I'd consider buying these solely in Alberta. This brings the price to $257.30.

• You would receive $10.29 back in rebates from your Amex (4%)
• You would receive either $4.29 in Sears gift cards, or 515 Asia miles (note that Asia miles are worth at least 1c/mile, or $5.15 in this case.)
• You could use this card on all of your non-Amex, non-bonused spending (e.g., Superstore)
• If you had just spent the regular $250 on your 2% Mastercard, you would have gotten $5 in rewards. (Note: they no longer offer this product. The best you can do is really 1.5%, but I use 2% to make it fit my own scenario)
• Using this system, I would have spent $7.30 extra for the gift card, but would have received $14.58 in rewards, a net reward of $7.28 per $250 spent. $7.28 > $5.00, so this strategy wins. (Remember that Asia miles can often be worth much more, and so this net reward is on the conservative side.)

Petro-Canada is now my stop for gift cards. If I lived right beside one, I'd probably go there on a weekly basis. I'm not yet fully convinced that I'd buy the Visa pre-paid gift cards -- we will have to see.